Hot(hatch) Take: The Fiesta ST is the new CRX Si

"Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow" (chriskf)
12/29/2016 at 11:07 • Filed to: None

Full Disclosure: I say this as someone who has driven neither, and only ridden in one of the two.

Sure, there are some glaring differences between them; 2 vs 4 doors, naturally aspirated vs turbo, Japanese vs American, and one has a good 30 years of automotive development and technological progress on the other. But I can’t think of any other hot hatch since the CRX, at least not anything sold in the United States, that has (according to reviews I’ve read and impressions I’ve heard) been so well-received and inspired such a giddy response from enthusiasts. They’re both affordable little FWD hatches that have proven themselves to be monsters when it comes to motorsports, and the FiST already seems to be working itself toward a similar cult status as the CRX.

Basically, Ford did with the FiST what Honda had tried to do with the CRZ.

And discuss.

DISCUSSION (29)

Jayhawk Jake > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 11:11

Meh. As someone who has driven both they’re nothing alike. The CRX was a much better platform for motorsports than the Fiesta will ever be

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 11:14

Unlike the CRX, provided it hasn’t rusted into the ground, there will be no Fiesta ST’s that haven’t fallen apart in 30 years.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 11:15

Eh, the Fiesta is pretty dominant in rally, and I mean the actual Fiesta, not the Fiesta looking shell over race car.

RT > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 11:24

Both carry a similar spirit, though the Golf GTi, 205 GTi and even Honda’s own Civic Type-R have been there and done that. I’d say this analogy applies to the US market only.

And while the FiST is a wonderful little car, I don’t see it getting anywhere near the following of the CRX, at least not any time soon.

Dusty Ventures > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 11:33

I’ve rallied in near-stock Fiestas, they’re absolute monsters on stage

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 11:34

I think the CRX has a big advantage in that regard over the FiST because of the lego-like interchangeability of Honda motors, particularly in the late 80s and 90s.

I definitely don’t think they’re the same car, but in regard to being really the only affordable hot hatch that lives up to the characteristics that’re found desirable in an enthusiast/true grassroots motorsports platform.

Kanaric > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 12:08

SI (typo had CRX) had a helical diff the last few generations and that is one huge difference for motorsport.

Tekamul > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 12:13

Naaa.

The ST costs more (including inflation), weighs about 35% more, and lacks the steering feel, even after all the benefits CAD has added.

Jayhawk Jake > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 12:47

I think where I take issue with the comparison is the CRX became popular for motorsports because it was simple, cheap, and light. The Fiesta really isn’t any of those things.

I don’t think ANYTHING would be a modern CRX. Modern cars are all far too complex to be like the CRX. I don’t think that’s a bad thing mind you, I just think we are in a different era.

The CRX was great for it’s time and still is fun today, but it’s very different.

fourvalleys > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 13:16

simple, cheap, and light. The Fiesta really isn’t any of those things.

Simple: It’s about as simple as you’ll get for a modern sporty car. The only part that makes it much more complex than a CR-X is that it’s got a turbo and mostly electronic sensors. Most inexpensive “sporty” cars have a turbo these days, and good luck finding any modern car that isn’t riddled with sensors.

Cheap: You can get one off the lot for under $20k out the door. Seriously, I don’t think there’s a better car in terms of fun per dollar. Sub-$20k is cheap . Consumables are cheap, even after you factor in the brake wear from torque vectoring.

Light: It weights the same as the BRZ/FR-S, which everyone praises as lightweight.... I get it, in general FWD should be lighter... but one is a 4-door turbo hatchback. There’s gotta be a little give somewhere. Plus, it has a third more torque than the 86 does! (And actually, more than that if you look at dyno numbers.) It’s not a Miata, and it’s not trying to be.

All I’m trying to say is that for the modern day, it actually is simple, cheap, and light. It’s also quick, and a TON OF FUN. Sounds a lot like the CR-X to me.

fourvalleys > Tekamul
12/29/2016 at 13:20

It isn’t really fair to compare MSRP with inflation, unless you compare the overall car market versus inflation. How much does a Honda cost these days? More than an old Civic including inflation.

Tekamul > fourvalleys
12/29/2016 at 13:47

Civics were more expensive in 1988.

1988 MSRP for a base sedan : $9645 -> $19,543

2016 MSRP for a base sedan : $18,740

And a 2016 Civic has a shit load more size, etc than an 88.

fourvalleys > Tekamul
12/29/2016 at 14:03

According to C&D, the cheapest Civic in 1988 was $6095, which is about $12,400 adjusted for inflation. According to Honda, the cheapest 2017 Civic starts at $18,640. That’s a lot more.

In any case, the CR-X Si was a $10,000 car in 1988. Adjusted for inflation, that’s still over $20,000. So yes, the ST costs more when you adjust for inflation... Barely. But - to my point - it’s also not 50% more than the cost of a base Civic.

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Tekamul
12/29/2016 at 14:09

The CRX couldn’t be made again today to be as lightweight as it was, because of safety standards. So that’s a poor point to argue in terms of performance. All cars have gotten heavier since then. So you have to compare their weights relative to their respective times/markets. And as fourvalleys said, with inflation the CRX Si and FiST are about the same price.

I’m not saying the FiST is a direct parallel to the CRX, just that it is the closest any car has gotten to being what the CRX Si was in its time.

Tekamul > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 14:25

The CRX couldn’t be made again today to be as lightweight as it was, because of safety standards.

The Answer Is Always Miata : 2332 pounds with a convertible top that necessitates more high strength structure down low. In 1990 : ~2150 pounds.

They don’t have to get heavier, they just do anyways. The Fiesta is not a worthy successor.

Tekamul > fourvalleys
12/29/2016 at 14:28

The cheapest civic in 88 was a DX was less contented than a current civic, even on baseline common features (doors/seats/trim level). That’s why I tried to compare apples to apples with an LX sedan.

If you wanted to get closer, you would compare a civic to its modern day equivalent, a Fit, which slices another 4k off the price.

The Fiesta ST is content-heavy at the expense of driving experience, which in no way aligns with a Fit.

fourvalleys > Tekamul
12/29/2016 at 14:36

Alright, based on your last sentence, I have a question for you. What other cars in this price range (lets say sub-$22k) focus more on “driving experience” than on features? I don’t expect you to find one that fits that criteria more than the Fiesta ST.

Tekamul > fourvalleys
12/29/2016 at 14:44

None. There are no more budget driver’s cars, including the Fiesta ST. An empty set is still a set.

You need to expand the budget to get north of $25k to find any.

Jayhawk Jake > fourvalleys
12/29/2016 at 14:55

But you said ‘for the modern day’

Is it a great fun light car for today? Yes. Does that make it a CRX? No.

I think calling it a ‘modern day CRX’ is missing the point. Things don’t need a direct parallel. The McLaren P1 isn’t the modern day McLaren F1 because the F1 stands alone. The CRX does as well.

fourvalleys > Tekamul
12/29/2016 at 14:55

I disagree. Plenty of others (including many journalists and reviewers) do too. I’m sure you aren’t alone (and I hope you’ve had the chance to drive one at the limit!), but the Fiesta ST is a fantastic car.

Jayhawk Jake > Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow
12/29/2016 at 14:58

Isn’t the new Miata like 100 pounds heavier than the NA? You might not get quite as light but you could probably get close if it was your goal.

But at the end of the day that’s kind of my point: you can’t make a modern day CRX. It was a car of a certain era and that era is gone. I’m not saying any of this to discredit the Fiesta, if anything I think calling the Fiesta a CRX is selling it short.

awmaster10 > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 15:00

So, theres no such thing as a modern crx because cars are too modern now?

awmaster10 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/29/2016 at 15:03

“Unlike the CRX, provided it hasnt fallen apart, there will be no Fiesta STs that havent fallen apart in 30 years” Is basically what you just said...

Chris_K_F drives an FR-Slow > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 15:13

I’ll agree that the CRX was a different car of a different era.

The main parallel I was trying to draw is that the FiST is the first car in the U.S., since the CRX, to be a true small hot hatch that inspires emotion in enthusiasts.

There’s always been the GTI, which people love and for good reason, but it seems purchasing one is a choice made of more sensibility. Whereas the CRX and FiST would both be choices based slightly more in emotion. Idk if I’m effectively getting across what I mean, but that’s roughly what I’m going for.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > awmaster10
12/29/2016 at 15:21

Yes, but the Fiesta will literally fall apart, source: Own one.

awmaster10 > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
12/29/2016 at 15:24

Well yeah but rusted stuff also literally falls apart, cant really count rust as an exception to falling apart. BUT yeah, that sucks I thought they were at least of average build quality. Guess at that price point youre paying for the performance and not much else

Jayhawk Jake > awmaster10
12/29/2016 at 15:43

Yes, exactly. The CRX is great because of all the things it did that modern cars don’t.

I’m no watch afficianado, but I suspect that many watch lovers wouldn’t call the Apple Watch a modern Omega Speedmaster

awmaster10 > Jayhawk Jake
12/29/2016 at 16:18

Ahh I was kinda poking fun at your circular logic, but your first sentence clears it up. There are definitely cars with modern equivalents, but ill concede that the CRX may not be one of them

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > awmaster10
12/29/2016 at 16:22

Yeah, I hoped for a little better, but apparently a lot of newer cars are experiencing the same issues: Extremely thin, fragile paint and thin sheet metal(dented by acorns). Fit and finish inside is pretty great for a subcompact, but there are a few questionable things about the outside.